this is barack obama's tax reform and he's going to raise the rates on capital gains and dividends, responsible even the estate tax and deductions and exemptions and he'll be done with tax reform. i think his goal is to make this set of tax changes permanents. >> i think he wants one other thing, republican fingerprints, that is votes in favor of raising rates because he knows if that happens. he decides the republican party and offers some protection for democrats for raising taxes in the next congressional election. >> absolutely. breaking the republican party would be a benefit to this plan, also, i don't think barack obama minds in the tax rates go up on the middle income people as well. >> paul: he's promised-- you're saying-- >> the ultimate win is to have all of that new revenue for the government and being able to blame it on the republicans. >> paul: wait a minute, if you're saying we go over the cliff, nothing happens in december, come january the president will not turn around and insist on the middle class portion of in tax? >> i think if he was allowed to say, look, republicans wou